October 27, 2004

BY SCOTT FORNEK Political Reporter

Republican Alan Keyes said Tuesday he believes all Americans should be required to provide military or civilian service, and he argued that U.S. citizenship should not automatically be granted to everyone born on American soil.

Democratic rival Barack Obama pledged to seek the reappointment of U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald, and said he believes the Electoral College should be scrapped as the means for choosing the president.

"I think at this point it is breaking down," Obama said.

CANDIDATES' QUICK WIT, SHARP TONGUES COME INTO PLAY BEST COMEBACK "Well my children currently go to the Lab School at the University of Chicago, where I teach and my wife works, and we get a good deal for it." -- Barack Obama, joking about why his children attend a private school. "I do not see the day when every American family's going to be able to be employed by the University of Chicago, so they too can have a choice. I think we had better get there a little sooner than that." --Alan Keyes, calling for school vouchers. BEST USE OF DEAD PRESIDENTS "This is something that I do have to address because Mr. Keyes repeats this all the time. He suggests that the separation of church and state is somehow an argument that he's having with liberal judges out here. He's not having an argument with liberal judges. He's having an argument with Thomas Jefferson and James Madison." -- Obama BEST USE OF A PORNO STAR "If I had to take a position that was contrary to my conscience, I wouldn't be able to be a politician. These people who say, 'Well, I think abortion is wrong, but I've got to stand for a public policy that pursues it,' are people who would say, . . . 'Sex outside of marriage is wrong, but I'm going to be a porno star.' You can't have it both ways." -- Keyes

But it wasn't all bold policy pronouncements as the two U.S. Senate hopefuls met for their third and final debate. Obama showed he was getting tired of Keyes' lecturing, while Keyes clearly had had enough of the Democrat's use of glib, crowd-pleasing lines.

School choice

"Well, my children currently go to the Lab School at the University of Chicago, where I teach and my wife works, and we get a good deal for it," Obama said, eliciting chuckles from the audience when he was asked why his two daughters don't attend public schools.

Before launching into a pitch for school vouchers, Keyes coolly observed, "I do not see the day when every American family's going to be able to be employed by the University of Chicago, so they too can have a choice. I think we had better get there a little sooner than that."

Obama said Keyes' support for vouchers would "blow up the public school system" by draining it of resources.

Televised on WTTW-Channel 11, the final squaring-off was the most spirited and substantive yet between the two gifted debaters from opposite ends of the political spectrum.

Interruptions, squabbling

Their first meeting two weeks ago was a detailed but dull discussion of policy, and their second last week was a more heated and personal exchange. On Tuesday, the two debated political philosophy and the role of government, the veracity of separation of church and state and a wide variety of social, economic and other issues. And there were plenty of interruptions, squabbling and refusals to let the argument end.

"When a child doesn't have health insurance, they don't need a lecture. They need health insurance," Obama said after Keyes argued that faith-based organizations can do things the government can't. "And in those situations, I think government has an appropriate role in making sure that some of those needs are met so that people can ultimately do for themselves."

Keyes responded "nobody disagrees about that," and then blamed the breakdown of the family on the federal government's "stupid regulations that did not in fact take account of the moral dimensions of the help that we should be providing people."

Obama accused Keyes of making liberalism "a bogeyman" by "suggesting that people who are interested in government providing some assistance to people who are on hard times are somehow engaging in socialism.''

"And that is completely off point," Obama said. "Because what we're talking about is not socialistic programs. Mr. Keyes considers Social Security socialism. He calls it a socialistic program."

Public service

Obama said he opposes reinstating the draft. Keyes said he supports "universal service, also including non-military alternatives."

In a discussion of the problem of illegal aliens, Keyes said "we need to change our basis for citizenship because I think . . . where you're a citizen just because you're born here is something that is contributing to this problem and needs to be changed."

Afterward, Keyes said citizenship should only be granted if both parents are U.S. citizens.

Obama pledged to reappoint Fitzgerald -- the corruption-busting prosecutor imported from New York who has proved a bane to Democrats and Republicans alike.

"I think we could have found an independent U.S. attorney from Illinois," Obama said. "But I think the person who was selected has done an excellent job and, I think, deserves reappointment."

Bizarre exchange

In one of the more bizarre exchanges, Obama challenged a statement Keyes made a couple of weeks ago that the children of homosexual couples are doomed to commit incest because they don't know who their biological parents are. The squabble quickly turned from one of homosexuality to logic.

"There's no logic involved in that," Obama said. "That's pure vicious attacks against homosexuals."

Keyes responded it was a logical certainty if the father's identity was shielded.

"And if you can't know who your sister and brother are, there is no way you could avoid having sexual relations with them," Keyes said. "I know that Sen. Obama sometimes has a hard time getting from A to B, but from A to B is a simple logical step, which I believe most people in the state of Illinois will have the common sense to see."

Obama countered that the same could be true of adoptions and infertile couples relying on sperm donors -- only prompting Keyes to continue his tutorial on logic.

"If I have ascertained that a mistake is made over here, telling me that the same mistake may also be made over here doesn't invalidate the logic which identifies the mistake.

"And that's where you're having a problem."