Obama gets defensive in Illinois debate
 |  Barack Obama joked about trying to get equal time against the talkative Alan Keyes, right. |
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CHICAGO, Illinois (AP) -- Alan Keyes and Barack Obama both oppose gay marriage, but the issue produced some of the most confrontational moments of the third and final debate of their battle for the Senate.
The two also clashed on education and the proper role of government in a discussion that stuck to the issues but still managed to evoke harsh words from both men.
Obama criticized Keyes' argument that the children of gay couples, if born from artificial means and kept in the dark about their biological parents, could later end up unknowingly having sex with a relative. Calling it "a vicious attack," he claimed the argument was a subtle attempt to link homosexuality with incest.
Keyes accused Obama of denying his logic because he didn't like the conclusion.
"If you can't know who your sisters and brothers are, there is no way you could avoid having sexual relations with them," the Republican former United Nations ambassador said. "I know that Senator Obama sometimes has a hard time getting from A to B."
"I think your logic was not that complicated. It was just wrong," Obama shot back moments later.
Obama, a Democratic state senator, sought to show Keyes as out of step even with many conservatives by noting that he and President Bush both support civil unions for gay couples, while Keyes opposes them.
But Obama struggled to explain what in his own religious beliefs leads him to oppose gay marriage.
He condemned bigotry against homosexuals and said he believes homosexuality is generally "innate" rather than a choice. But he did not offer a clear explanation of why gay couples should not then have the right to marry beyond saying that the traditional definition of marriage should be preserved.
Keyes reiterated his position that gay couples should not marry because same-sex couples cannot conceive children naturally.
The debate included a lengthy discussion of the role of government, with Keyes suggesting government generally should leave poverty and other social ills to religious organizations that can link the problems to morality.
"I am not obsessed with government, and I think that's the difference between me and Barack Obama," said Keyes.
But Obama maintained that government must do its best to help when it can.
"When a child doesn't have health insurance, they don't need a lecture. They need health insurance," he said.
For the first time in the three debates, Obama at times found himself on the defensive -- and not just on gay marriage.
Obama defended his opposition to school vouchers, saying they would drain funds from public education. Pressed on why he sends his children to private school, Obama said he gets a break on the cost because the school is run by the University of Chicago, where he and his wife work, a statement Keyes mocked.
"I do not see the day when every American family is going to be employed by the University of Chicago so they, too, can have a choice," Keyes said. "I think we had better get there a little sooner than that."
Asked whether he supports drilling for oil in the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge, Obama first said yes and then laughingly corrected himself to make clear that he opposes drilling.
But Obama also produced laughs from the audience when he joked about trying to get equal time against the talkative Keyes.
The candidates split on whether it's time to eliminate the Electoral College, which decides who becomes president. Obama said the Electoral College should go, but Keyes supports it.
They also split over whether to approve more federal funding of stem-cell research, with Obama supporting it and Keyes opposing.
The moderator, Phil Ponce of Chicago's WTTW-TV, often struggled to rein in the discussion as Keyes and Obama rushed to contradict each other or counter some allegation.
Both candidates struggled when pressed to say something nice about their opponent.
Keyes talked about what a positive impression Obama has made with the media and how courteous he has been before complimenting Obama's command of the issues.
Obama noted Keyes' fine singing voice but also acknowledged his passion and intelligence.
Keyes acknowledged during the debate that he has been wrong in the past when he said more black babies are aborted than born.
About 415,000 black women had abortions in 2000, the most recent year for which figures were available, but more than 622,000 children were born to black women, according to the Alan Guttmacher Institute, a nonprofit research group, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
"That's still pretty bad," Keyes said.
The two are vying for the seat being vacated by Republican Sen. Peter Fitzgerald.
Copyright 2004 The
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